S2E4 Behind the Bob - the one with Ranjeet Kaile

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with

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me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

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This

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Carrie-Ann Wade: podcast is all about developing communications leaders

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of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

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You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

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be a special guest or two popping up.

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So I hope you enjoy.

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Hello listeners and welcome to this episode of Behind the Bob.

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I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Ranjeet Kaile.

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Ranjeet, do you want to introduce yourself?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:41

Thank you so much, Carrie-Ann, for having me.

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I'm Ranjeet Kaile.

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I'm Director of Communications at South East London Integrated Care Board and

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also Director of Communications for South London, the Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust.

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So thanks for having me, Carrie-Ann.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: So I feel like we've got two for the price of one, and I'm sure

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we'll talk about the challenges of being a communications director across two

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very big organisations and partnerships.

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So I'm excited to hear about that.

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And thank you so much for being on the podcast.

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I feel like I've known you for a really long time.

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I don't know how many years it is.

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But as I was thinking about this conversation, I thought most of the

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chats that we ever have, Ranjeet, are always like really forward thinking.

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And they're always about like, what can we do better?

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What can we do next?

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Like, what's life in comms going to look like into the future and I realised

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that actually I don't know very much about your career before I met you so

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I'm quite excited to hear a little bit about your communications career today

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and maybe even pre comms and how you've decided that communications was the

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profession for you so would you mind telling us a little bit more about that?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:51

Yeah, absolutely.

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And yeah, we shouldn't say how long we've known each other because

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that would give away our age, but it feels like a long time.

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I I'm very lucky because I'm one of those people who genuinely loves what

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I do and I think that's been fantastic and I'm also really lucky because

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when I studied for my first degree, it was in, in business and marketing.

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So I always knew that I wanted to be able to work in some form

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of industry where we could like communicate, make some difference.

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But the reality was just in the how what was that going to look like?

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And there was some of the big agencies that I thought I'd

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end up working my career in.

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But I realised actually calling was about how can I work in a public sector

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environment and I originally wanted to work for the police but I'll

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tell you a little bit about that.

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But my career journey, basically after I graduated, I was

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looking for a marketing job.

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And I did a couple of temporary stints as many of us do working

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in a company that's no longer in existence, Nortel Networks, telephony.

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I worked for a couple of other companies in the marketing

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departments but the most interesting thing I did was stuff envelopes.

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And then I got my big break when I worked for London Borough of Hounslow

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as a marketing assistant working for their adult education department.

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And I did that in the early 2000s.

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And for me, that was like the eye opener of what a difference I could make because

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we were trying to get people from really diverse backgrounds into further learning.

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And and it was trying to get people to not just, do the sort of Reiki healing

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courses, but much more about English for speakers of other languages, things that

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would make a difference to their lives.

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And I was really taken aback by the opportunity that we have in these

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roles, especially in public sector to make such a significant difference.

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And I was also struck by working in.

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The public sector, how we can get involved.

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Our scope can be huge, right?

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It can be absolutely massive if we get in on and do our core job,

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but actually we can then suddenly start to organize festivals, we

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can do sponsorship campaigns, we can do lots of other opportunities.

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That gave me a real good inspiration to then try and do more.

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And I then as a young man, took a chance to go and apply for a

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job at London Borough of Lambeth.

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And I'll never forget, I I didn't get a job.

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I didn't get a job the first time round.

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And I was broken hearted, and I was like, oh, I could definitely do this.

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But I didn't.

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I got some good feedback.

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So I stayed at London Borough of Hounslow for another year.

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And then the job came back up at London Borough of Lambeth.

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And I called up the manager and said, do you think I should apply again?

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And they were like, absolutely come and apply.

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And thankfully I got the role there.

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And I was working in the education department, as it was.

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And we were working on a number of programs around providing access and

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some of the things I still remember was called Blue Bag, which is about getting

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getting information out to local schools.

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But then you might recall there was a Victoria Climbie death that took place,

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this tragic death of a young girl.

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And through the Every Child Matters government mandate, there was a,

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an agreement to merge the education and the social services departments.

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And that form the children, young people services.

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So that was a major change, which ultimately meant that we could

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really work closer together.

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And I then saw actually comes from a strategic perspective has a role to play

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in terms of bringing people into this new vision and understanding we have to

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modernize and do things differently if we don't want another Victoria Climbie

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and then we then moved on to still at Lambeth we then moved on to doing a

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campaign called We Need Schools, which was around trying to change the school

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stock at Lambeth because it was all Victorian estate and really dilapidated.

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And we were successful in lobbying for 220 million pounds.

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And then I led that communication stakeholder engagement program, but I

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think that was right about 2005, 2006.

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And I was really proud that actually we could invest in the

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schools, make a massive difference fundamentally to young people's lives.

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And then I started to work in the corporate element of of London Borough of

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Lambeth took on a slightly bigger role.

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And then I moved on to working in the NHS.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: And that's where we met.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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That's right.

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Yeah, so I then, yeah, just worked in Sussex Partnership

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which was a mental health trust.

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For a number of years and did a various number of stints in,

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in depart Department of Health.

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And then I came back to London in 2013 and have been here ever

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since because it's, it is great.

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There's so many things to get involved in and to be able to

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like, have an impact in comms.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I love it.

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. Do you know what's really struck me as you've been speaking is so much

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of what you've said about every part of your career to date has

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been about impact and that desire, but also that knowledge, that.

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The role that you do can have a huge impact for other people and I think

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sometimes if you don't work in the communications profession, you don't

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realize that, comms plays such an important role in being able to have that

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positive impact for, for communities, for workforce, whatever the group of

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stakeholders might be like without good comms, you're not going to have

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the impact that you want to have.

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You, you're absolutely spot on, right?

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Carrie-Ann, because the reality is that we can do wonderful

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campaigns that look glorious and they have that they're out there.

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You've got a poster up on a massive billboard or social media campaign,

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but fundamentally good ask questions.

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So what difference has it made?

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And I think the more senior you get, the more responsible you ultimately

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are for making sure that the money that we spend, taxpayers money

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on those campaigns has an impact.

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And I think ultimately we've got to be able to make sure we can we can

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learn also from things that have gone before so we don't have to

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constantly invent everything ourselves.

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And I think what's really exciting about the roles that we have,

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because sometimes you can absolutely see the difference you're making.

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And I remember, and it might not sound like comments but actually it is about

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the front door of an organization when we at South West London and

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St George's Mental Health Trust we

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reviewed the interface between how patients engage single point of access.

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And at the time, it was a average wait time of nine minutes and through

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a program that I led to look at how we can transform that service.

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We then implemented a new system, new telephony, new training programs.

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We've got that down to 27 seconds.

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And I'm thinking for nine minutes to 27 seconds, And those are the things that

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we in comms can see because we have such a broad lens of the opportunity.

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And I think that's where we shouldn't always necessarily stay within our

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traditional domain because we have got a strategic opportunity because

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we've got such a bird's eye view of the work that takes place so

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Definitely.

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impact is huge isn't it.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah.

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And, and you've talked a lot about opportunity and I feel like having known

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you for a while, again, we won't give away how long I feel like you're a person

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who grasps opportunities and that's very much like part of your personality.

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And I think it's really interesting that a lot of your career has

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been in public sector, because I think there might be for.

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people who don't work in that public sector kind of sphere, a sense that

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there is less opportunity in the public sector, because we hear lots

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about, you know, money's really tight.

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There's never any finances.

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We've got shortage of staff.

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The workforce is really challenged, but actually, I don't know

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if you found the same thing.

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It sounds like you have.

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From my experience of working in the public sector, there's been huge

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opportunities to have that impact as an individual, but also with your wider team.

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So, yeah, what would you say to those comms colleagues who perhaps haven't

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considered public sector in terms of that opportunity for career progression?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:49

Yeah, that's a great question.

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I think I think there's just so much opportunity.

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There's so much opportunity to make a difference, especially when you

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look at comms and strategic function that has a layer of everything.

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So we can ultimately get involved in everything and to help improve that

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interface with patients, carers, staff, whatever that might be.

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And I think If you're interested in joining the public sector, and you're

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interested in communications, then there's no better place because there's always

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something going on, whether it's rebutting Some of the myths or the challenges that

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might be put towards us or actually have you look at transforming service change?

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And whether that's implementing new care models or developing, helping

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to develop clinical strategies, helping to bring staff on board with

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change the massive opportunities.

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And also the fact is.

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As we develop, as the NHS develops we have to work closer with our communities.

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We have to give away power, we have to think about how

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can we do things differently.

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And that's another opportunity where we've got to be able to develop those

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relationships with partnerships.

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That, that is hard work, but it's also ultimately reward, rewarding and Helps

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things be sustainable, because what we can't do is something that's magnificent

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for six months or a year and then go, Oh, great, the funding ran out actually, it's

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our job to be able to look at how can we start to make this work longer term

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or work with VCSE partners and others.

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So I think it's, I think it is really genuinely exciting

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to be able to get involved.

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And yeah, I would encourage it.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: We'll talk a little bit more, I think, about your role as

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a comms director specifically, because I think listeners are interested

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to hear about why people might choose to step up into that space.

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But you've already mentioned quite a few big programs of work that you've

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been involved in through local authority and the NHS, but are there particular

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highlights of your comms career to date that you wanted to share with us?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:55

Oh, I thought you'd never ask, Carrie-Ann.

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My whole career, I'm joking.

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I think I think, sure many other people say the same thing, but when

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the pandemic hit, it was different.

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It was different, wasn't it?

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And if you worked in the eye of the storm in the NHS, it was full on.

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All the time 24 seven constantly, and I think those points where people made the

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decisions to go all in and to be able to support frontline staff and communities

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and patients and others was critical.

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And I think we were the thing I'm really proud of is we worked

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with our chair so Norman lamb.

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Who predicted the psychological fallout because of the impact of COVID and and

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his view, which was proven to be right, was also the impact that the cost of

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living crisis can have mental health the impact of of people being isolated.

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etc.

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So as a result of that, we created a coalition of voluntary and statutory

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organizations, local authority partners, NHS and others to, to create a task force,

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which has also got faith groups and other partners across the whole of South London.

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And we call it South London Listens.

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And then we went out to our experts and said, look, what are the things

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that we can do to make a difference?

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And that was great.

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It's traditional, isn't it?

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We asked our experts.

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Experts know best.

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Experts came up with ten things.

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They said, more leaflets, more posters more X, Y, and Z.

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And then we said, okay we're going to go out to ask our community now.

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We did a community listening exercise over six, six weeks.

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And we engaged with 10, 000 individual conversations and we

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had lots of counsellors leading these sessions, lots of like faith

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groups, partners, schools, et cetera.

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And actually what they came back with, they said, your list that

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you've come up with is rubbish, right?

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That's not what we want.

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We don't want more leaflets.

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We don't want, but what we want is these four things.

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They wanted to look at working wages to tackle social isolation and loneliness

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and digital inclusion to look at children and people in parental mental

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health, and the other one was to improve access for refugee migrant communities.

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And as a result of that, we then created a program which is now

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we've invested almost close to 5 million pounds across South London.

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We've worked to get all of all our provider organizations

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paying London Living Wage.

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We've looked at programs called Community Embedded Worker where we have nurses.

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now working in refugee with refugee groups or with food banks or at school

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so that they can look at prevention.

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So we're moving much more upstream.

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And then there's a program work we do around recognizing that

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people, especially children, young people who are on waiting lists.

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Actually, what can we do to support them whilst in the waiting list?

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How do we curate that journey?

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So we've created CAM's virtual waiting room.

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All of this has come through directly through listening to our communities and

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then working with them on the solutions.

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And that program, as is we're now in its fourth year is is an incredible

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piece of work that we're doing.

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And as a result of that, we're now moving into anchor systems.

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So actually it's an anchor system.

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What can we do to pull together our partners to be able to then support

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future generations to work in the NHS, just like we're having conversation now,

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and people don't know the opportunities that are available working in public

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sector, you can become a doctor, actually, on the job through an apprenticeship

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scheme, you could look at getting your degree, the mentoring opportunities

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that are available are phenomenal.

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So it's really about getting that passion in.

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And for me, that's been the joy.

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of actually connecting what I really love doing at work and actually what I really

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love doing about communities because that's where we can make a difference.

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People don't just go to hospital when they're unwell, actually they, the

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hospital is part of their community and I think that's something we've

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really got to start to think on.

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So that's what I'm most proud of.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: If you're an aspiring communications leader who's looking

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for a safe space to work through your next steps or you want to become more

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:00

boundaried and intentional in the workplace or even in your career, why

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:04

not check out the individual and group mentoring offers with Cats Pyjamas.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:08

You can find out more at cats-pajamas.co.Uk or over on our socials.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:14

All the links are in the show notes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:17

I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:18

And I can, I can hear and see that you're most proud of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:21

And it's back to that impact, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:23

Like what an amazing impact to have for the communities across South London and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:28

thinking beyond just what is the NHS intervention in somebody's life when

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:32

they're unwell, but actually how do we work with others to stop people from

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:36

becoming as poorly, for example, and how do we address all All of those other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:40

issues that impact a person's health and wellbeing and their broader life.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:44

So it sounds amazing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:45

And I know that South London Listens is a program of work that is much

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:49

admired across other parts of the NHS, because definitely in North East

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:54

London, we've talked about it a lot.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:56

So yeah, you should definitely be hugely proud of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:58

And thank you so much for sharing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:01

So I'm going to move us on a little bit now to be more focused on the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:05

role of a communications director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:07

And obviously you've been involved in, in that amazing program in your

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:11

capacity as a director of communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:14

And you've mentioned that's across, you know, your own organization

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:17

and then a wider system.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:19

So first of all, before we talk a bit more about maybe some of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:22

the challenge that that brings.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:24

I just wondered, how did you decide that becoming a director was the right choice

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:29

for you in your communications career?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:31

Ah, yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:32

It's always hard, isn't it, to know at what point, but I think I always

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:37

I was really lucky to know early on I wanted to work in communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:40

I just didn't know what kind of communications then I worked in,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:43

as I said, in the public sector.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:45

Originally I was wanted to be a police a police man, but I did

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:48

two weeks of work experience and I thought, no, that's not for me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:53

Carrie-Ann Wade: that was the story.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:54

You had the desire to work for the police service, and then you had

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:56

a little bit of a, a taste of it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:58

You're like, no

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:59

no, not for me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:59

But but yeah, communication.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:01

It was an incremental journey.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:03

So I started as an assistant, I then became manager.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:07

I became a another manager, then I became a head of communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:11

Then I became a head of communication with trust.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:13

Then I became a director and then I became an executive director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:17

So it's been that kind of that pathway journey.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:20

And so for me, I think the end goal was always being able to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:23

implement changes we've just said.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:25

And I think there's no better way than to implement it genuinely than being in

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:29

a space where you can influence other executive colleagues and the board.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:33

And I think that's the transitional factor.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:35

We move into a space where you're suddenly shaping policy and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:39

shaping way organizations work.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:42

I think so I recognize through other inspirational leaders and how they did it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:45

And I've did, and I'm a great believer in you watch people who do incredible

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:50

work and, Carrie-Ann yourself and you've done incredible work and you've

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:53

been an inspiration to many people.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:55

And I, and so many others in our community have been able to do that, which is

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:59

really positive about our community.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:01

And actually you learn from that and then you take the best of that to then

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:05

think, how can you have an impact?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:08

So I yeah, I feel like it was it was the pathway I was on, but recognizing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:14

that, those pathways aren't always straight, because actually, you don't

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:18

necessarily just stay in one organization and go all the way through the jobs,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:20

all the way to the top, actually.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:22

And that, I wouldn't even recommend that, in fact, because you need

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:24

to get a broader experience.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:26

And so working in different parts of the system, working in different places gives

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:30

you that rounded kind of experience.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:32

And I've still got a lot to learn and definitely, even yesterday I was trying

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:35

to figure out how to use the new Outlook.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:37

So yeah, I've definitely got a lot to learn.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:40

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:40

And, and I do think that, Communications professionals in particular are

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:45

really good at supporting each other.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:48

I very rarely, I mean I have, but I very rarely have come across a communications

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:53

professional who isn't prepared to give their time and their expertise to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:58

mentor or guide or give some advice to someone else and I think that's what's

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:02

really lovely about the communications community that that you've referenced

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:07

that actually most people that I've come across in the profession have been.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:11

Very open to give in time, advice and support to others to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:15

them achieve their next step.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:17

So I definitely think that you've been an inspiration, Ranjeet to lots

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:21

of people who've seen your rise to executive director level and kind

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:26

of you've been so helpful in kind of sharing what that journey has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:29

been like and what that's been like.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:30

How that's felt for you and how you can support others.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:33

And I know you've done loads of great stuff, some of which you might talk about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:36

around apprenticeships and trainees and, and bringing people into the profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:41

Because everyone has to start somewhere before they can reach those lofty

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:44

heights of being an executive director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:46

So hopefully you might talk a little bit about some of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:49

But I wondered if you could tell us what's felt like some of the biggest

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:53

challenges for you as a director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:58

Absolutely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:58

I think I think there's always, as well as the positive, some of the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:02

challenges that we've got to work on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:05

And I think that for me, the challenges have been about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:13

how do you continue to build

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:18

a team that now works very differently as a result of COVID

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:24

how do you keep that engagement?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:25

Because with people, comms people are really buzzy, engaging, creative,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:32

some of that can be a challenge when people aren't connecting as much.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:36

But recognizing that should we operate in a new way of working that's also

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:40

good and it gives greater freedoms so you really want to be able to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:45

people Learn and develop and go further.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:49

And so trying to understand how you can do That's good for people in the pace.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:54

That's good for people.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:55

I think the other challenges have been around

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:01

Moving communications from the old traditional view of comms As in,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:09

oh, comms will pick that up, comms will write that, comms will do this,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:14

to then saying actually, how can we strategically impact the way the narrative

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:20

of the organization is or needs to be and that doesn't come instantly to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:26

some people, because, Comms can be a catch all in the NHS for everything.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:31

And before you know it, you are writing policy.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:33

You are writing strategy.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:34

You are writing a clinical document of some sort and others.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:39

So I think it's about the challenges has been really clear what this new modern

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:45

form of communications is, looks like and can do the other side of it has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:50

been, and it's a constant really about demonstrating what I was saying earlier

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:54

about the impact that we have because.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:58

We're only as good as what we did.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:01

Six weeks, six months ago, and how we demonstrate for every

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:07

pound that's put into comms, we're having an impact in that way.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:12

The other challenges, as you'll know all too well, Carrie-Ann, is some of the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:17

political challenges, big P, small P.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:22

And often our roles can be facilitators of bringing people together and to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:27

communicate things that can be tricky or challenging, and to try and get

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:31

people to a place in between the lines before we get to a formal stage of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:37

having those conversation discussions to get people on the same page.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:42

And I think they're the kind of challenges that are there the other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:45

thing that we were saying off off air, but it was also as you get more senior.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:50

You're often that person that's going, why have you done that?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:53

What's going on here?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:54

And that's, that comes from a good place it comes from a good place because you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:57

want it to be really good and you want people to succeed and you want teams

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:02

and work to succeed and you want to have the impact that we've spoken about.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:06

But then that also does.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:07

mean that you are adding greater degree of scrutiny and and that's right and proper

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:12

because our roles are serious roles about having impact demonstrating the impact

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:17

we have for patient care and that can only come when we Can apply that quickly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:21

So I think it's about getting accustomed to that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:24

As well.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:25

Carrie-Ann Wade: It's grown a bit of a thick skin, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:27

Because we were saying as, as you said off there, like you're holding the mirror

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:30

up sometimes to the organization and you are part of the decision making,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:34

but often also part of the challenge around the decisions that are being made.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:38

And sometimes I think that can leave colleagues from other disciplines

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:41

slightly frustrated when they feel like, why aren't comms just getting on board?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:45

And agreeing that that's the right thing to do, but, and you're

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:48

absolutely right about sort of demonstrating the impact and outcomes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:51

And I think one of the things that shifts slightly is to be more

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:55

focused on the actual outcomes for the greater good rather than

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:59

the outputs of your comms team.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:01

And I think sometimes that can be.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:03

The balance and the challenge you have to kind of manoeuvre as you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:07

become more senior in your career.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:09

It's not about, Oh, well, this host got this many engagements.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:13

It's actually the say what piece that you talked about earlier and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:15

demonstrating that for colleagues.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:17

Definitely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:18

Absolutely Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:19

And I think the other interesting thing particularly I found is that as you do

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:24

become more senior what, who is your team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:27

Is your team, the communications and engagement team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:30

Is it the executive team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:32

Is it another team altogether?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:35

Is it a combination?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:36

How does that work?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:38

And then it's finding that right balance because you can sometimes

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:40

go too far one way or the other.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:43

And so it's important to try and strike that the right way.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:48

And and for me, actually, I think I have an office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:54

But actually the other day I went and sat in my office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:56

with my comms team and I just thought this is, I've missed a whole bunch

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:59

of this, because I'm not in the room, I'm not in the space myself.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:02

So it's also important for me to reflect that I need to be in that as much as I

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:07

need other people to be in that space.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:09

So that's the lesson and the learning for me as well.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:11

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:12

Thank you, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:13

You've talked I wanted to move us on from challenges to successes and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:16

you've talked about South London Listens as being an absolute kind of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:20

success in, in your career in terms of work that you've led and supported.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:24

But I wonder if as a comms director, there was anything else you wanted

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:27

to reflect on in terms of, of what feels like success to you?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:31

Yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:32

Ah, it's interesting, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:33

Because It's for different stages of your career.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:37

There's different kind of elements of success that you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:39

can, Oh, I got that great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:40

And it was covered in the Guardian and it was fantastic article.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:42

It's great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:43

I think I think the successes for me come from when people buy

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:48

into an idea and as a result of that, it then grows and develops.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:51

And the two examples I'll give really quickly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:55

One was when I was working at Southwest London, St.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:58

George's mental health trust what I realized was there was no money.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:02

We're all used to this for comms and engagement.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:04

There wasn't the money that's needed to do new programs work quite

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:08

rightly to be put to the areas where it needed in terms of services.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:14

So I looked at this idea came from one day I was walking past my chair's

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:20

office, the chair, the chairperson.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:23

And I looked inside and there was a plant and the plant was absolutely dead, right?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:28

It was completely, it couldn't be more dead.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:30

It was finished, but it was here in the chair's office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:34

And this is where, they welcome guests and have big conversations etc.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:38

And I thought if we could allow that in the chair's office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:41

Yeah, and you know we walk along, along the room and the toilets look terrible.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:46

The toilet seats are broken.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:49

The.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:49

Rubbish on the floor.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:51

I'm painting worse pictures than it is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:52

But do you see what I mean?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:53

It's every day we walk past things and then that's the standard that we accept.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:56

So I took a picture of the, of this dead plant and some other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:01

random pictures of posters where somebody had crossed out the board.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:04

execs as they'd left the organization these are genuine pictures and things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:08

And I created a presentation and I called it making life better together.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:11

And then I said, let's create a program of work, which is a culture change program,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:15

which basically pulls in our Our staff engagement people who work with our HR

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:19

colleagues, the communications team, we've got the membership team, the staff health

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:25

and being team, all these people need to come together to work towards this common

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:29

goal of making life better together.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:31

And we put in activities and annual plan and do some different things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:34

And of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:36

When I was taking that through the executive and other people, what struck

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:40

people was the dead plant and people still talk to me, oh yeah, the dead

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:43

plant, because everybody recognizes, we walk past those things every single day.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:48

And that program is still going strong, I'm no longer there.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:52

And I'm now at South London Morse.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:54

But that program is going really well and I'm really proud that actually colleagues

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:59

took it and made it much bigger and much better and I've done an amazing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:02

job with it and has been fantastic.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:04

So that's one of the successes I think I'm really proud of.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:08

The other one is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:10

Something that I keep saying I'm going to write up and I do need to write this

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:13

up, but is the comms trainee program you mentioned earlier carry on, which was

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:17

recognizing that, often I'm sure that many of us will get asked by about, are

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:24

there any opportunities in comms, for, said niece, nephew, child, et cetera.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:29

And when you look at it, From our diverse communities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:33

Other people don't have those connections.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:34

They don't have the opportunity to be able to get into into our profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:38

And therefore, what's the gateways we can create, or actually, how do we remove

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:43

some of the obstacles and barriers for people to come into our profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:47

And the development of the commerce training program came actually from

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:52

a very similar program the nursing development team we're doing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:55

Because they created a trainee program for nurses to come in and I was

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:59

thinking, actually, there's nothing to stop us from doing that for comms.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:04

So we created the job description, which started at a band two back

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:08

in, I think, almost 10 years ago.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:10

And now it's a band three, 18 month rotating program.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:14

We've had around about 10 trainees go through that program and they've all

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:18

successfully either gone on to work in the NHS or public sector services.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:21

And the diversity has probably been 80 percent diverse and.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:26

And it's such a phenomenal thing to see people who come in and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:29

say, what's an email signature to then leave the organization going?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:34

Yeah, I can write this campaign plan.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:35

I've done this PR.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:36

I'm doing this.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:37

Yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:37

I'll take a camera and just film the chief nurse and I'll do this.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:40

And that's a buzz we need because by getting more people from diverse

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:46

backgrounds, but younger generation, others involved in our work, passionate

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:50

about our work, that's how they can also help us learn and develop.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:55

And I think it's really important to do that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:57

So they're my two successes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:58

I'm really proud of.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:59

Carrie-Ann Wade: Oh, I love both of those.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:00

And I love that the dead plant has become the symbol of like

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:03

what we won't accept walking past.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:05

That's the standard now that we won't accept is the dead plant.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:08

And that's amazing how that stuck with people from your

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:11

initial pitch of that idea.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:13

But I'm, I'm so glad you talked about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:14

the trainee program, because in the last series of this podcast the colleagues that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:19

came from NHS that we interviewed around diversity in our profession were all name

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:23

checking you, Ranjeet, for the work that you're doing in that space and talking

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:27

about how much you're an advocate for trainees, apprenticeships, and, and kind

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:31

of making the profession more diverse.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:33

So it's definitely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:35

a success for you.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:37

I'm glad you think it is, but everyone else thinks it is too.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:39

So Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:41

I know we could talk for hours because we've done it before and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:44

often over a gin and tonic, which we don't have at time of recording.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:48

But I also appreciate our listeners have other things that they need to go and do.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:52

So I'm going to try and wrap the conversation up, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:55

And my final question for you, which I think would be a lovely way to end

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:59

is, is what advice would you give to aspiring communications directors?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:05

So from everything you've learned in your career, you know, what would be

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:09

the advice you'd give to people who are thinking, I fancy that step up and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:12

I'm going to give it a go, but I may be just not a hundred percent sure yet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:17

Yeah, that's another podcast altogether, but in a sentence,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:22

I would probably say be brave and be open minded to opportunities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:29

And I think if you get the basics everything else will follow.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:34

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:35

Thank you, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:36

I probably did save what could have been the biggest question

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:38

till right at the end, didn't I?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:40

Because I'm more interested in being nosy about your career, Ranjeet

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:43

because I didn't know some of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:45

So it's been enlightening to find that out.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:47

So thank you so much for sharing and being part of the conversation, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:52

And I know our listeners will be really pleased to hear from you.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:55

If people want to reach out to you and find out more about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:58

the book, What's going on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:59

Are you on socials?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:00

How did they, how did they link in with you?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:03

Yeah, I'm on what used to be called Twitter X @ranjeet_kaile.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:08

Please do reach out and give me a shout.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:11

Carrie-Ann Wade: Fabulous.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:11

Thank you so much for your time.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:13

I've really appreciated it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:14

Thank you, Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:15

Thanks for having me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:17

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:20

I'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:23

and leave a rating or a review.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:25

You can also engage with me over on the socials.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:28

I'm on Insta and X at @catspjs_uk of course you can find me over on LinkedIn.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:34

Hope to catch up with you soon.