S2E6 Behind the Bob - the one with Amanda White

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with

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me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

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This

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Carrie-Ann Wade: podcast is all about developing communications leaders

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of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

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You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

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be a special guest or two popping up.

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So I hope you enjoy.

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Welcome listeners to this episode of Behind the Bob,

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Diary of a Commons director.

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And I'm really pleased to be joined today by the fabulous Amanda White, who is a

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super experienced communications leader across a range of sectors from health,

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research, science and currently director of communications and PR at Lifebit.

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So Amanda, welcome.

Amanda White: 00:00:55

Thank you very much.

Amanda White: 00:00:56

It's lovely to, to be here and thank you for inviting me.

Amanda White: 00:00:59

Carrie-Ann Wade: And it's so nice to virtually see you on the recording

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of this podcast, because we were just saying before we started recording that

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it's been quite a few years and pre COVID, so it feels like a different

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world, probably for comms as well as everything else since the last time

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we actually physically saw each other.

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So I'm really happy that you agreed to be part of this conversation, Amanda.

Amanda White: 00:01:22

Yeah, it's been a while, but I think we have kept in

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touch, haven't we, over the years, which has been really lovely.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I know a little bit about a part of your communications career where

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we met in the health sector, but I was wondering if for our listeners, and for my

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benefit, you could just tell us a little bit about your career to date, Amanda.

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Why you decided that communications was the profession for you?

Amanda White: 00:01:46

Yeah, sure.

Amanda White: 00:01:47

So as you said, I've worked in several different sectors, but my focus has

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been on sort of healthcare or research communications since I kind of really

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got going in my communications career.

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But maybe if we sort of go back to the very beginning so as a student,

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I studied anthropology at university.

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And what I really loved even from kind of an earlier age was, you know, how

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people interact with each other and have conversations and how those conversations

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can develop into, you know, really interesting relationships or projects

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and people, you know, working together to do something really good for society.

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So I think my interest in that kind of human communication and interaction

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had sort of a big part to play in my career choices over the years.

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And so my first role was at ActionAid.

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So, you know, fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

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I was out of university.

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I was temping for ActionAid, the development charity, and I was

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temping in their HR department and they needed somebody to do internal

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communications within the organization to the staff that were based across.

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And it just sounded like it was a really good fit for me at the time

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and just a really great way for me to get into the field of communication.

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So I worked on internal bulletins and developed an intranet for the staff there.

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And was very fortunate to be able to travel to Ghana, where we worked

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with colleagues, communication colleagues in some of the different

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country programs while I was there.

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And I think that sort of initial role for me sort of set out, you know, a very clear

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objective for me to stay in the field of communications and kind of use that

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experience that I'd had in my degree about how People like to receive information

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and how people like to communicate.

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That really sort of set me off on, on my career direction.

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So I then went into a role at the bank, actually, I wanted to kind of go and

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see what it's like in the commercial sector and was there for a few years

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again, doing internal communications and had really great experiences

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of working on projects where.

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Teams were being reorganized.

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There was actually some office closures and there was a merger that happened.

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So I've got really good experience and grasp around more challenging internal

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communications that, you know, impact on essentially the impact on people's lives.

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And I really wanted to do a bit more with that.

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So I then was offered a job in the NHS.

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And I spent eight years working in an NHS trust, which was amazing.

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And my role there was more external communications.

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where I was able to communicate to different audiences, including

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healthcare professionals, primary care clinicians, members of the public,

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patients, but also stakeholders that are working in local governments.

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So worked on some really fascinating projects there as well.

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And then that took me into another role in linked to the

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NHS, but working with academics.

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And that's kind of how I got into my.

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more science and research communications.

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And I was able then to develop from there and move into a director

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role in my last post where I was responsible for communications across

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the National Research Institute.

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And then now where I am at Lifebit, which is back in the commercial sector, but

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still focused on science and research.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Before I ask you any more questions and a bit later in the

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conversation, we'll come back to that sort of directorship and taking that step up.

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And I'm really keen to hear some of the highlights about

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your communications career.

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But I'm also intrigued to know is somebody who the majority of my communications

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career has been in the public sector and you've kind of done voluntary sector,

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public sector, commercial sector.

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Are there similarities and differences?

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And I'm, I'm not going to be mean and put you on the spot and say, is there

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one that you prefer over the other, but I'd just be intrigued to know, what's

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felt different and what similarities there have been through that journey

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through different sectors for you.

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Yeah, I think it's a really good question.

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I think for us as communicators, there's a lot of similarities because

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ultimately you're in, if you're in house, you're there to support the

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objectives of that organization.

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So you create your common strategy around that and achieving those objectives.

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So from that point of view, you know, it's very similar and, you

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know, the approach to developing a communication strategy can be the same.

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I think in any sector it's kind of, you know, the audience is.

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Are often, you know, obviously difference.

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And I think, obviously the big, the big difference between a

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public sector and commercial sector is, in the commercial sector.

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There is that kind of focus on, , ensuring that your value for money, but you're

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also bringing in, , you're promoting the business in the right way that

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actually brings in those leads as well.

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So it's.

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The kind of the pressures, I would say, are slightly different.

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But I would say, yeah, in terms of, you know, the work that we're

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doing and the way that we work, that there's a lot of similarities.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm always intrigued to get that extra insight when People

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who've worked in, in different sectors to myself, and I know listeners will be keen

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to hear some of that as well because I guess as we go through the conversation,

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some of that decision making about taking the next step in your career is about

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where feels like the right fit for you.

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But I'm really keen to hear a bit more about highlights of your

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communications career, Amanda, and I'm sure there'll be many and it'll

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be hard to choose given, given the breadth of experience that you've got.

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But are there any.

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Particular things that stand out for you as a highlight

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throughout your comms career.

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Yeah, I think for me, the highlights have also been some of the most

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challenging things that I've worked on in my career, because they're the things

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that stick out to me as kind of having, you know, I've got very strong memories.

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I'm very proud of working with teams on these particular projects so I guess

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the first one you know, you wouldn't really call it a highlight because, it

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was, , a really terrible circumstance that happened, but when it, going

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back a few years now, but the for those that remember, , the bombings,

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the terrorist attacks in London.

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I was at the time working at Bart's Health NHS Trust.

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I was a communications manager and I was also one of the on call press officers.

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So for those of you that are in the NHS and listening, you'll know that

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you kind of, you all have a turn on the rota to be a press officer.

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So I had some experience, but not a huge amount of experience

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of dealing with the media.

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And on that day of the London bombings we went into the office, we were , working

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in the office in person at that point.

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And we had in the press office, we had a TV, so the TV was on and we

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started to kind of see news reports of I think there was a bomb that was

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exploded on a bus in Russell Square.

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And then we were hearing reports of something happening on the underground.

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And one of our, our, our head of press was asked to go immediately to the, the

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Royal London Hospital, which was along the Whitechapel Road from our office.

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And I went along with them and we didn't really know what to expect.

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So it was very frightening.

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It was very daunting.

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And , we spent sort of two or three days working together as

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a team over that period of time.

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Most of the casualties from the bombings were transported to the Royal

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London Hospital where we were working.

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They came in buses, so the bus drivers stopped and picked everybody

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up and brought everybody over.

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So there was, there was hundreds of casualties that

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were in the hospital that day.

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And we were dealing with the The media, first of all, London

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media, then national media.

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And then by, I don't know, maybe two or three o'clock in the afternoon, it was

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the world's media that were contacting us.

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And at that time, people might also remember we had pagers

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we didn't have work, mobile phones.

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We had pagers that just buzzed and buzzed all the time.

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And the journalists were trying to.

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They wanted to speak to doctors at the hospital for their comments they wanted

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to speak to patients as well to get their kind of reports of the incident firsthand.

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And it was, it was incredibly overwhelming for so many different

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reasons, but in that situation as a team, we were just incredible.

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We worked, we all knew kind of what job we had to do, we all supported

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each other and we got through it.

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And then the next day we had an inquiry that the queen wanted to

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come and visit to kind of give her regards to the staff at the hospital.

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So that added another dimension to this situation that we found ourselves

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in where we had to kind of prep.

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You know the space and we had to prep the clinicians and yeah, then we

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had this wonderful visit on the day.

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So,, in terms of a highlight, in terms of what we were able to deliver as a team

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and, you know, my personal involvement in that,, being thrown in completely

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at the deep end, dealing with the world's media, knowing kind of how to

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give appropriate statements knowing who should be an appropriate spokesperson and

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what support they might need, because.

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the clinicians were having , an awful job on the day.

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And then, you know, the coverage we had as a hospital afterwards in terms of how

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that hospital and the NHS trust dealt with those incidents was fantastic.

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So, you know, the outputs of that.

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You know, as something that are really memorable and, you

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know, really stick with me.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: And the power of team feels really important, doesn't it?

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And I don't know what your experience has been, but I've always found

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communications as a profession to be a really supportive profession to be part

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of, and there's a real sense of community and camaraderie, particularly when.

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Something terrible happens, actually, that people are there to support each

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other and pick each other up, so I don't know if that's been your experience

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in other places as well as in the NHS, but it sounds like from what you're

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saying that sense of team around you is really important as a communicator in

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dealing with some of the things we face.

Amanda White: 00:12:22

Yeah, absolutely.

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I think, , for everybody to come together and know what their role needs to be.

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And in those kind of urgent emergency situations, your job

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title sort of doesn't matter.

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It's kind of who you are.

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where your skills are best able to adapt to that situation and

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how you're able to work together.

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And that team that I worked with on that day, we still go for

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dinner at least twice a year.

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We are, we're very close.

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We're very supportive.

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And I think, you know, that that will continue, you know, we're, we're

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almost 20 years on from that incident.

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So and then, you know, another similar,, example is during the pandemic.

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So at the time I was director of communications and policy at

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Health Data Research UK, which is a national research institute for

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England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

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And it was a new institute.

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So it was established in 2017.

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And when we got into the pandemic, the Institute was really kind of

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found its feet because it had a real purpose to demonstrate the

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power of health data for research.

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And this health data was needed urgently for research.

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you know, the research into the vaccine and understanding how COVID 19 was

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spread, and looking at treatments for the people that were in hospital.

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And so my team at the time, and , I had a very small team at Health Data Research

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UK, but we, we were there to make sure that we were gathering information from

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the research community on how they were working together to form projects.

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We were communicating and doing engagement projects with patients and members of

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the public to understand what their.

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Priorities were in terms of where should the government act most urgently

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in terms of the research response.

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And we were communicating with government ministers and the SAGE

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committee on a regular basis.

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We were giving them reports and we were giving them briefings on

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what were the most urgent research priorities and where were the research

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teams already established that were set up and ready to respond.

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And again, that team aspect was so important and I suppose in that

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situation, it wasn't just my, my direct team that I was working with, but it

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was the whole Team across the uk, all of the communicators that were working

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in, the NHS in the universities, in the, in the research institutes,

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the, the Welcome Institute at the, at Sanger Institute in Hingston.

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They were processing all of the genomic data for all of the Covid samples.

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So it was a whole team.

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You know, efforts.

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And I think, you know, that was really incredible as well.

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You know, being part of that and again, understanding, where

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our skills were, where we could best contribute and organizing

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ourselves in the most effective way.

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So that, that's another aspects of my career that really stands out.

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Carrie-Ann Wade: Amazing, such brilliant examples.

Amanda White: 00:15:37

Thank you so much for sharing Amanda.

Amanda White: 00:15:39

And it's interesting, isn't it?

Amanda White: 00:15:40

I like what you said before you gave those examples that actually the bits of

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your career that really stand out that you've considered highlights probably

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come from some really challenging places.

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That wouldn't necessarily be a natural conclusion that you might draw when

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thinking about highlights, but I think it really demonstrates the nature of

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the role of communications as well.

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And the sorts of things that communicators,, are faced with on a, on a

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fairly regular basis and what they have to get involved in with their organizations.

Amanda White: 00:16:08

Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda White: 00:16:09

And I think it demonstrates that the role is much broader than, you

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know, what people might traditionally feel is, is a communications job.

Amanda White: 00:16:19

Carrie-Ann Wade: if you're an aspiring communications leader who's looking

Amanda White: 00:16:21

for a safe space to work through your next steps or you want to become more

Amanda White: 00:16:25

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Amanda White: 00:16:29

not check out the individual and group mentoring offers with Cats Pajamas.

Amanda White: 00:16:33

You can find out more at cats-pajamas.co.Uk or over on our socials.

Amanda White: 00:16:38

All the links are in the show notes.

Amanda White: 00:16:40

I'm going to move us on a little bit now and ask you about that decision to take

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on a role as a communications director.

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And part of wanting to have these conversations on the podcast is about

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inspiring future communications leaders.

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So I know listeners will be keen to know kind of how did you decide that

Amanda White: 00:17:01

becoming a director of communications was the right choice for you.

Amanda White: 00:17:05

I

Amanda White: 00:17:06

I've always been very driven in achieving the best that I can.

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I always remember my dad at school when, when it was exam time, my dad

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always said, , do your best, , that's, that's what we're looking for.

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And , that's always sort of been ingrained in me that I want to do really

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well in my role, but actually I want to always strive to take that next step.

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And quite often it's been, I have to put myself out of my comfort zone to do that.

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I think, you know, quite a lot of us feel like that.

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To a certain extent, but I've always been, , driven to achieve, , more

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responsibility, more accountability.

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So that's what's, what's focused me in my career.

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So each time I've had a career move, I have tried to take the next step up to

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push me again to do something that's a bit broader with with more responsibility.

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So there's the, there's that aspect.

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I think the other thing for me is again, it comes back to working with teams.

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, I really get a lot of pleasure and joy and satisfaction from working with other

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people and supporting other people.

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Also to do their best and to , get the most out of their, their jobs.

Amanda White: 00:18:23

And I found probably in my first manager role or my first head of

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communication role that I was, I'm actually quite good at this.

Amanda White: 00:18:32

It's quite hard to say that, but you know, I'm quite, I'm, I'm good at managing.

Amanda White: 00:18:36

Carrie-Ann Wade: isn't it?

Amanda White: 00:18:36

Why do we find it so hard to say we're actually quite good at supporting

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other people to do great things?

Amanda White: 00:18:42

It's, it is hard, but you know, I, I get

Amanda White: 00:18:44

great feedback from my teams.

Amanda White: 00:18:46

And you know, I support them.

Amanda White: 00:18:48

I s you know, I, I make sure that they are delivering what they need to do

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because obviously we've got tasks and we've got objectives to meet and we've

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got KPIs that we have to demonstrate.

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So there is that ensuring as a leader that we've got that kind of

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clear objective and clear outputs.

Amanda White: 00:19:04

But at the same time, recognizing everybody in the team is an

Amanda White: 00:19:08

individual and they, they want to get something out of their role as well.

Amanda White: 00:19:13

And if I can be there to support that and to really champion that, The

Amanda White: 00:19:18

individuals in my team, then again, that's something that I really love.

Amanda White: 00:19:22

And I felt that I could do that more if I become a director because I'm

Amanda White: 00:19:27

leading, across different departments.

Amanda White: 00:19:31

And I kind of feel like I have huge pride in celebrating

Amanda White: 00:19:37

what, what teams can deliver.

Amanda White: 00:19:40

And when you start a strategy or you're setting up, , a communications

Amanda White: 00:19:46

team, and then you sort of, you can, you work through that process and

Amanda White: 00:19:51

then you see what comes out and what you are able to achieve together.

Amanda White: 00:19:55

I feel, I feel incredibly proud and I feel.

Amanda White: 00:19:59

I'm always really excited to celebrate those achievements of the team.

Amanda White: 00:20:03

And I think, you know, that's, that's what's really driven

Amanda White: 00:20:05

me in my career so far.

Amanda White: 00:20:08

And, you know, wanting to become a director.

Amanda White: 00:20:11

And, you know, just the variety of work that comes with being a director.

Amanda White: 00:20:16

I think in communications, there are so many different aspects to the

Amanda White: 00:20:21

role, as I was saying previously.

Amanda White: 00:20:24

And, , I've had the privilege of leading , public engagement

Amanda White: 00:20:29

and involvement activities.

Amanda White: 00:20:30

I currently lead marketing activities.

Amanda White: 00:20:34

I've done policy and public affairs.

Amanda White: 00:20:36

And I think as a director, you can have that.

Amanda White: 00:20:39

Responsibility for the strategy overall, and then you can motivate and encourage

Amanda White: 00:20:45

and support your teams to achieve.

Amanda White: 00:20:47

The best that they can within that strategy.

Amanda White: 00:20:50

So I think that's really something that's been driving me.

Amanda White: 00:20:53

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm sat here listening to you, Amanda,

Amanda White: 00:20:55

thinking I want you to be my boss.

Amanda White: 00:20:57

Doesn't everyone dream of having a leader like you who is there to

Amanda White: 00:21:02

support their growth and development?

Amanda White: 00:21:04

And yeah, it's so lovely to hear.

Amanda White: 00:21:06

And I'm really pleased that it's something that you feel proud of, even though

Amanda White: 00:21:09

it's hard to say sometimes, isn't it?

Amanda White: 00:21:11

That, that like you're there for everyone else, but yeah, that's

Amanda White: 00:21:14

really, really lovely to hear.

Amanda White: 00:21:15

So thank you.

Amanda White: 00:21:17

And , I'm sure next time you have a vacancy in your team, listeners to

Amanda White: 00:21:19

this podcast, Clamoring to, apply for the role, Amanda, to work with you.

Amanda White: 00:21:24

So that's a little bit about your why in terms of taking on a

Amanda White: 00:21:28

more senior communications role, which I think is really helpful

Amanda White: 00:21:32

to understand by way of context.

Amanda White: 00:21:34

And I know we've talked already a little bit about challenging scenarios

Amanda White: 00:21:37

in, in your career that actually have been things that you're really

Amanda White: 00:21:40

proud of in terms of handling them.

Amanda White: 00:21:42

But I guess specifically as a communications director, for those

Amanda White: 00:21:46

listeners who are Maybe thinking they want to take that step up, but they're

Amanda White: 00:21:50

a bit unsure because it is a more senior role with perhaps a bigger portfolio.

Amanda White: 00:21:54

I'd be intrigued to hear a little bit about what you might have considered

Amanda White: 00:21:59

to be your biggest challenge as a communications director.

Amanda White: 00:22:05

Okay.

Amanda White: 00:22:06

So I think I think the challenges that exist in any communications

Amanda White: 00:22:11

role continues, but they probably yeah, they probably vary in, in

Amanda White: 00:22:16

kind of difficulty, I suppose.

Amanda White: 00:22:18

I guess one of the things for me that I've always felt is a

Amanda White: 00:22:22

challenge through my career is.

Amanda White: 00:22:25

needing to demonstrate credibility and expertise in communications.

Amanda White: 00:22:30

I think working in the NHS, you're working with, very, very skilled

Amanda White: 00:22:36

technical medical professionals who have trained for years to do that job.

Amanda White: 00:22:44

In academia where I've worked, , you've got people that study for

Amanda White: 00:22:48

several years and, move through the academic career ladder.

Amanda White: 00:22:53

And currently, I'm working in a biotech company where I'm just working with

Amanda White: 00:22:56

brilliant innovators and, , coming into an organization as the communications

Amanda White: 00:23:01

director, you have to demonstrate that credibility from day one.

Amanda White: 00:23:06

You have to always, be.

Amanda White: 00:23:10

Delivering that expertise and using those skills that other people don't have

Amanda White: 00:23:17

because whilst they, maybe a professor.

Amanda White: 00:23:20

of epidemiology, they might be , a surgeon, in the NHS, they haven't

Amanda White: 00:23:25

spent 15 or 20 years working in teams, developing communication strategies

Amanda White: 00:23:32

that are influencing , people's choices or people's behaviors.

Amanda White: 00:23:36

But just having that job title isn't enough.

Amanda White: 00:23:38

You have to come in and you have to really demonstrate it.

Amanda White: 00:23:41

I think that's, that's always sort of for me has felt like a bit of a challenge.

Amanda White: 00:23:47

But it's just something that I suppose comes with, comes with the job.

Amanda White: 00:23:52

I think another thing is as a director, you're there to set the direction.

Amanda White: 00:23:56

And as we've talked about to support the team, to deliver that direction.

Amanda White: 00:24:03

Sometimes you want to be kind of more hands on because, as you've come up

Amanda White: 00:24:08

through your career, you've been used to writing press releases or you've been

Amanda White: 00:24:11

used to managing the social media channels or writing the newsletter content.

Amanda White: 00:24:16

And I think One of the challenges for me is letting go of that a little bit.

Amanda White: 00:24:21

So, recognizing that you have a very skilled team around you, who

Amanda White: 00:24:26

can get on with all of, , those really important things.

Amanda White: 00:24:30

You don't have to go meddling in and, checking things before they go out

Amanda White: 00:24:34

or monitoring social media channels.

Amanda White: 00:24:37

So that's been a, learning for me, as I've, moved into these director roles.

Amanda White: 00:24:42

So that's another one.

Amanda White: 00:24:43

And I suppose the other thing is being able to switch off.

Amanda White: 00:24:47

I think as a comms director, you always feel like you're on, on call.

Amanda White: 00:24:51

When you're working with individuals and organizations that rely on your your

Amanda White: 00:24:57

advice, your guidance, particularly, I think, when , as a director, you are

Amanda White: 00:25:01

there is the trusted advisor to the chief executive or to the board members.

Amanda White: 00:25:07

being able to take time away, switch off in the evenings, not check your

Amanda White: 00:25:11

emails, not check your other messages.

Amanda White: 00:25:14

I think that's, that's also a challenge that people should think about if

Amanda White: 00:25:18

they're considering, , this direction.

Amanda White: 00:25:21

Carrie-Ann Wade: Definitely, it can become all consuming, can't it?

Amanda White: 00:25:24

And sometimes it has to be, but it's about being able to put those

Amanda White: 00:25:27

boundaries in place, at the right time while still delivering what your

Amanda White: 00:25:31

organisation needs from you when you're working at that level as a director.

Amanda White: 00:25:35

With the board and I was, interested and I liked the words you used about

Amanda White: 00:25:39

like meddling because I think that is something that, we can all be at risk

Amanda White: 00:25:43

of doing when you're someone who's been there and done that for yourself.

Amanda White: 00:25:46

Because like you say, it's about that ability to let that go and

Amanda White: 00:25:50

trust the people around you.

Amanda White: 00:25:51

But I guess for me, it feels like that, goes hand in hand with the

Amanda White: 00:25:55

points you were making previously about development of people and

Amanda White: 00:25:58

supporting people to be their best.

Amanda White: 00:26:00

Because actually, if you are there.

Amanda White: 00:26:02

meddling and not empowering them to do what their job is to the best of

Amanda White: 00:26:06

their ability, then you're taking an opportunity away from them, aren't you?

Amanda White: 00:26:10

Particularly if you're there thinking, Oh, I just know how to do it.

Amanda White: 00:26:13

I could just do that really quickly myself,.

Amanda White: 00:26:15

Whatever reason you have for meddling, I think you're absolutely right.

Amanda White: 00:26:19

You have to be able to step away and trust that you've recruited the

Amanda White: 00:26:22

right people to, to do their roles.

Amanda White: 00:26:24

And obviously your input is then that encouragement and that support

Amanda White: 00:26:28

for growth rather than, Doing everything because you know how to.

Amanda White: 00:26:33

Yeah, exactly.

Amanda White: 00:26:34

And I think I had some really good advice as well when I when I moved into

Amanda White: 00:26:38

my director role Somebody said to me, well, what's, what's the worst thing

Amanda White: 00:26:43

that can happen if somebody if somebody fails, actually, it's a good thing if

Amanda White: 00:26:49

people fail from time to time, because that's the way that we learn, isn't it?

Amanda White: 00:26:53

And we've all done it.

Amanda White: 00:26:54

We've all made mistakes in our roles , over time.

Amanda White: 00:26:57

So I think, that is really important as a consideration to know if you're coming

Amanda White: 00:27:02

in as a director, you are there to lead that, strategy and the overall direction.

Amanda White: 00:27:09

And have that mindset that your team can get on with it and work with you on it.

Amanda White: 00:27:14

You don't have to be focused on absolutely everything that goes on.

Amanda White: 00:27:18

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you, Amanda.

Amanda White: 00:27:19

And we will talk a bit more about your own advice for aspiring comms leaders shortly.

Amanda White: 00:27:24

But just before, because I know we've talked a lot about challenge

Amanda White: 00:27:27

I just wondered in the sphere of your communications director world

Amanda White: 00:27:32

and experience, what you might consider to be your biggest success.

Amanda White: 00:27:36

So almost the flip side of the challenges.

Amanda White: 00:27:38

I I think the success that I've achieved has

Amanda White: 00:27:43

been setting up the communications function at Health Data Research UK.

Amanda White: 00:27:48

So I mentioned when I joined, it was a brand new institute.

Amanda White: 00:27:53

So I was working with the director.

Amanda White: 00:27:54

There was only three or four of us in the team when I joined.

Amanda White: 00:27:59

And I was very fortunate because My institute director at the

Amanda White: 00:28:02

time recognized the huge value of communications and engagement.

Amanda White: 00:28:08

From the outset.

Amanda White: 00:28:09

And so he brought me in to work with him to work alongside the director

Amanda White: 00:28:15

in establishing the institute.

Amanda White: 00:28:17

And it was really hard work.

Amanda White: 00:28:19

I mean, it was, it was like it was being in a startup.

Amanda White: 00:28:23

I turned up on my first day.

Amanda White: 00:28:25

We didn't have any computers, we didn't have a printer, I had to

Amanda White: 00:28:27

go to PC world on my first day and get myself the equipment.

Amanda White: 00:28:31

So it was, it was very much startup we grew to around about

Amanda White: 00:28:37

120 people by the time I left.

Amanda White: 00:28:40

We had a really well established comms and engagement function.

Amanda White: 00:28:45

And, we had developed the institute into a brand that was.

Amanda White: 00:28:51

Recognized around the world.

Amanda White: 00:28:52

So I was there as a director leading the brand development.

Amanda White: 00:28:57

I was leading the communication strategy.

Amanda White: 00:29:00

I led the public involvement and engagement strategy.

Amanda White: 00:29:04

And we had fantastic engagements.

Amanda White: 00:29:08

We had patient advisor, public advisors.

Amanda White: 00:29:12

And we had a very well recognized brand.

Amanda White: 00:29:14

And when I left, we were applying for our next five years of funding.

Amanda White: 00:29:19

And the Institute was very successful in being awarded its next funding round.

Amanda White: 00:29:25

So I was just, I was so proud.

Amanda White: 00:29:28

And I think, I think it was a success because we had, created something, , from

Amanda White: 00:29:35

nothing through to this internationally recognized institute that was really

Amanda White: 00:29:41

bringing together organizations around the responsible and ethical

Amanda White: 00:29:46

use of health data for research.

Amanda White: 00:29:49

So that's something that I will always be very proud of.

Amanda White: 00:29:51

Carrie-Ann Wade: And how amazing to be there right from the start,

Amanda White: 00:29:54

like the very first stages, like you say, you're the person that and

Amanda White: 00:29:57

get your own computer because you literally, it was like from day one.

Amanda White: 00:30:01

And I imagine there's not really that many opportunities for people

Amanda White: 00:30:04

to be at those very early stages of setting up an entire organization.

Amanda White: 00:30:09

So I can absolutely see why that would be such a great experience

Amanda White: 00:30:13

and why you'd feel so proud of that.

Amanda White: 00:30:15

And I guess just to.

Amanda White: 00:30:17

A supplementary question from me, like when you've worked somewhere

Amanda White: 00:30:21

from set up basically, is it very hard to take that leap to move?

Amanda White: 00:30:26

Do you feel more of a sense of like, I've been here since day one and it's, it's a

Amanda White: 00:30:32

harder wrench to move away or, or is that just me thinking that would be the case?

Amanda White: 00:30:37

Well, I'm a bit a bit silly and a bit emotional about these

Amanda White: 00:30:41

things, to be honest, because at the end of the day, it is just a job.

Amanda White: 00:30:45

But yes feel a sense of, maybe not ownership.

Amanda White: 00:30:49

Maybe I do.

Amanda White: 00:30:49

Maybe I did feel a some sense of ownership for it, which is, which was probably

Amanda White: 00:30:55

relating to the challenge that I had of.

Amanda White: 00:30:59

letting it go a little bit and enabling my team to kind of lead their own areas.

Amanda White: 00:31:04

But yes, also that sort of sense of loyalty that you have put everything

Amanda White: 00:31:09

into this, you put so much energy, late night working, weekend working.

Amanda White: 00:31:15

Into this initiative that it is very difficult to walk away.

Amanda White: 00:31:18

But for that role, I felt that it was the right time for me because

Amanda White: 00:31:23

I'd been there for almost five years.

Amanda White: 00:31:25

We were going into this next five year cycle and the strategy was

Amanda White: 00:31:31

likely to be quite different.

Amanda White: 00:31:32

And I felt that it needed some new fresh ideas to come in at that point.

Amanda White: 00:31:38

So it did feel like the right time to step away.

Amanda White: 00:31:42

Carrie-Ann Wade: Excellent.

Amanda White: 00:31:42

Thank you.

Amanda White: 00:31:42

Thank you for humoring me because I feel like I'd be very emotional and

Amanda White: 00:31:46

having had an experience of leaving an entire sector quite recently, it was,

Amanda White: 00:31:51

it was a really, I knew it was the right decision for me, but it was a really

Amanda White: 00:31:55

difficult decision because I almost had that sense of like, who even am I if

Amanda White: 00:31:59

I'm not, an NHS comms director anymore.

Amanda White: 00:32:02

So I was just wondering if being right there at the very start of it made

Amanda White: 00:32:05

that an even, an even harder decision.

Amanda White: 00:32:07

So thank you for sharing.

Amanda White: 00:32:09

So it feels like we're getting onto that bit, which is always the

Amanda White: 00:32:13

last bit of the podcast episode.

Amanda White: 00:32:15

And it's usually the bit that listeners are most interested in.

Amanda White: 00:32:18

And that's why I put it at the end to keep people listening.

Amanda White: 00:32:20

I wondered what advice you might give Amanda to aspiring communications

Amanda White: 00:32:25

directors, or people wanting to step up into more senior leadership roles.

Amanda White: 00:32:30

Yeah,

Amanda White: 00:32:33

it's a good question.

Amanda White: 00:32:35

I've been thinking about this and trying to figure out what, what,

Amanda White: 00:32:38

what is my best piece of advice?

Amanda White: 00:32:40

I think.

Amanda White: 00:32:41

I think I've got a couple, actually, if that's okay.

Amanda White: 00:32:45

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely.

Amanda White: 00:32:45

Okay.

Amanda White: 00:32:46

One is, what I found is working for organizations that may not

Amanda White: 00:32:51

be properly established, that may, , be a bit rough around the edges at the

Amanda White: 00:32:55

beginning, provide, have provided me with the very best of experiences

Amanda White: 00:33:01

because it's enabled me to shape things for myself and, and for the

Amanda White: 00:33:06

organization and has enabled me to grow.

Amanda White: 00:33:09

So being in at the start at HDR UK, , being employed to lead communications

Amanda White: 00:33:15

and engagement, I would then ended up leading all of those other areas as well.

Amanda White: 00:33:19

So I would say, if you get an opportunity to go into.

Amanda White: 00:33:24

, maybe a smaller, less established organization that's in its early

Amanda White: 00:33:27

stage, I would say go for it.

Amanda White: 00:33:30

If you feel like the culture is right because it's definitely a great place

Amanda White: 00:33:34

to grow in your career and probably quite quickly, more quickly than you

Amanda White: 00:33:38

would do in, in larger organizations.

Amanda White: 00:33:42

And the other thing that I would say, which is probably not just only

Amanda White: 00:33:46

relevant for a comms director, but it's probably more broadly relevant

Amanda White: 00:33:49

is trust your instincts because.

Amanda White: 00:33:54

An organization culture is so important, and if you feel that there is something

Amanda White: 00:34:01

not quite right, but you can't put your finger on it, there probably

Amanda White: 00:34:04

is something that's not quite right.

Amanda White: 00:34:07

So I would definitely say trust your instincts about, , the, the

Amanda White: 00:34:10

places that you go and work in and , the workplaces that you choose.

Amanda White: 00:34:14

So that would be my second piece of advice.

Amanda White: 00:34:16

Carrie-Ann Wade: I think that's a really interesting piece of advice, isn't it?

Amanda White: 00:34:19

Because you're right, that applies to everybody, whatever role they're

Amanda White: 00:34:22

in, that that culture has to feel like a culture that fits for you

Amanda White: 00:34:26

and aligns to your values and is something, a culture where you feel

Amanda White: 00:34:30

like you can have impact and thrive.

Amanda White: 00:34:32

But as you've said that, I thought that's probably is like

Amanda White: 00:34:36

extra for a communications team.

Amanda White: 00:34:38

professional, whatever level they're working at, because communications play

Amanda White: 00:34:43

such an important role in helping to set and communicate and define and work on the

Amanda White: 00:34:48

culture of that organization, doesn't it?

Amanda White: 00:34:50

So actually there has to be that fit there to enable you to be the best communicator

Amanda White: 00:34:56

you can be as well, because it's quite difficult to communicate something that

Amanda White: 00:35:00

maybe doesn't quite sit right with you,

Amanda White: 00:35:04

Yeah, exactly.

Amanda White: 00:35:05

And I think as a comms director, part of your role is to influence

Amanda White: 00:35:11

a culture internally because your internal colleagues are your

Amanda White: 00:35:16

advocates and your spokespeople.

Amanda White: 00:35:18

And they all have such an important role in how You're positioning that brand

Amanda White: 00:35:22

or that, that organization's identity.

Amanda White: 00:35:26

And so if you feel that, your values or your personal, culture

Amanda White: 00:35:31

is not aligned, then that there's probably something in that, , if

Amanda White: 00:35:35

your instincts are telling you that.

Amanda White: 00:35:37

I would say go with it,

Amanda White: 00:35:39

Carrie-Ann Wade: but so trust your instincts is a really important bit of

Amanda White: 00:35:42

advice for all of us and I feel like we've almost come full circle Amanda

Amanda White: 00:35:46

because you've just mentioned the role of a comms director in that internal

Amanda White: 00:35:50

space around setting culture and right at the start of our conversation

Amanda White: 00:35:53

you talked about taking on that internal Comms role with action aid.

Amanda White: 00:35:57

So I feel like , that's definitely, it feels like a theme that's come through

Amanda White: 00:36:01

this conversation about, , your desire to have impact for other people and

Amanda White: 00:36:06

develop them and make sure environments are environments where people can thrive.

Amanda White: 00:36:10

So I've really enjoyed hearing this.

Amanda White: 00:36:12

I could talk to you for lots longer, Amanda, but I know you probably got

Amanda White: 00:36:15

other things that you need to be doing and our listeners probably do have too,

Amanda White: 00:36:19

but I've really appreciated you sharing.

Amanda White: 00:36:22

Your highlights, some of the challenges, but also your

Amanda White: 00:36:25

advice for other communicators.

Amanda White: 00:36:27

It's been really interesting to hear about that, particularly that's, that being

Amanda White: 00:36:31

in almost a startup and what that's felt like for you as a communications director

Amanda White: 00:36:36

and the opportunities it's given you.

Amanda White: 00:36:38

So huge thanks from me.

Amanda White: 00:36:40

If people want to connect with you, Amanda, pick your brains or

Amanda White: 00:36:43

find out more about what you're up to as a comms director, what's

Amanda White: 00:36:46

the best way for them to do that?

Amanda White: 00:36:48

Just reach out to me.

Amanda White: 00:36:49

I'm on LinkedIn.

Amanda White: 00:36:50

So you can find me there and be really happy to have a chat with anybody

Amanda White: 00:36:54

that, , has any other questions or would like, , some more advice or guidance.

Amanda White: 00:36:59

Carrie-Ann Wade: Brilliant.

Amanda White: 00:37:00

That's great.

Amanda White: 00:37:00

Thank you so much, Amanda.

Amanda White: 00:37:02

I've really appreciated your time and your conversation today.

Amanda White: 00:37:05

Thank you, Carrie-Ann.

Amanda White: 00:37:06

It's been lovely chatting to you and I'll see you soon

Amanda White: 00:37:15

Carrie-Ann Wade: thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Amanda White: 00:37:18

I'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform

Amanda White: 00:37:21

and leave a rating or a review.

Amanda White: 00:37:23

You can also engage with me over on the socials.

Amanda White: 00:37:26

I'm on Insta and X at @catspjs_uk of course you can find me over on LinkedIn.

Amanda White: 00:37:32

Hope to catch up with you soon.