Episode 6

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Published on:

31st Jul 2024

S2E6 Behind the Bob - the one with Amanda White

Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director

Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with Carrie-Ann Wade.

This podcast is all about developing communications leaders of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career. You’ll hear from Carrie-Ann about her own personal experiences and insights and there might even be a special guest or two popping up.

The first series focused on diversity in the communications profession and how to create more opportunities for people to see communications as a profession they would like to work in. The second series explores the lives of communications directors to help inspire and support communications leaders of the future.

Behind the Bob gives you a sneak peek into life as a comms director and provides you with all the "behind the scenes" knowledge to help you thrive as a communications leader.


Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed listening please share it, leave a rating or a review. It really does help the podcast reach more communicators!

New episodes of Behind the Bob are published on Wednesdays and you can always subscribe via your favourite podcast platform to ensure you don't miss an episode.

You can find out more about Carrie-Ann and Cat's Pajamas Communications at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Transcript
Speaker:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with

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me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

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This

Speaker:

Carrie-Ann Wade: podcast is all about developing communications leaders

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of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

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You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

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be a special guest or two popping up.

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So I hope you enjoy.

Speaker:

Welcome listeners to this episode of Behind the Bob,

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Diary of a Commons director.

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And I'm really pleased to be joined today by the fabulous Amanda White, who is a

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super experienced communications leader across a range of sectors from health,

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research, science and currently director of communications and PR at Lifebit.

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So Amanda, welcome.

Amanda White:

Thank you very much.

Amanda White:

It's lovely to, to be here and thank you for inviting me.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: And it's so nice to virtually see you on the recording

Amanda White:

of this podcast, because we were just saying before we started recording that

Amanda White:

it's been quite a few years and pre COVID, so it feels like a different

Amanda White:

world, probably for comms as well as everything else since the last time

Amanda White:

we actually physically saw each other.

Amanda White:

So I'm really happy that you agreed to be part of this conversation, Amanda.

Amanda White:

Yeah, it's been a while, but I think we have kept in

Amanda White:

touch, haven't we, over the years, which has been really lovely.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I know a little bit about a part of your communications career where

Amanda White:

we met in the health sector, but I was wondering if for our listeners, and for my

Amanda White:

benefit, you could just tell us a little bit about your career to date, Amanda.

Amanda White:

Why you decided that communications was the profession for you?

Amanda White:

Yeah, sure.

Amanda White:

So as you said, I've worked in several different sectors, but my focus has

Amanda White:

been on sort of healthcare or research communications since I kind of really

Amanda White:

got going in my communications career.

Amanda White:

But maybe if we sort of go back to the very beginning so as a student,

Amanda White:

I studied anthropology at university.

Amanda White:

And what I really loved even from kind of an earlier age was, you know, how

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people interact with each other and have conversations and how those conversations

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can develop into, you know, really interesting relationships or projects

Amanda White:

and people, you know, working together to do something really good for society.

Amanda White:

So I think my interest in that kind of human communication and interaction

Amanda White:

had sort of a big part to play in my career choices over the years.

Amanda White:

And so my first role was at ActionAid.

Amanda White:

So, you know, fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

Amanda White:

I was out of university.

Amanda White:

I was temping for ActionAid, the development charity, and I was

Amanda White:

temping in their HR department and they needed somebody to do internal

Amanda White:

communications within the organization to the staff that were based across.

Amanda White:

And it just sounded like it was a really good fit for me at the time

Amanda White:

and just a really great way for me to get into the field of communication.

Amanda White:

So I worked on internal bulletins and developed an intranet for the staff there.

Amanda White:

And was very fortunate to be able to travel to Ghana, where we worked

Amanda White:

with colleagues, communication colleagues in some of the different

Amanda White:

country programs while I was there.

Amanda White:

And I think that sort of initial role for me sort of set out, you know, a very clear

Amanda White:

objective for me to stay in the field of communications and kind of use that

Amanda White:

experience that I'd had in my degree about how People like to receive information

Amanda White:

and how people like to communicate.

Amanda White:

That really sort of set me off on, on my career direction.

Amanda White:

So I then went into a role at the bank, actually, I wanted to kind of go and

Amanda White:

see what it's like in the commercial sector and was there for a few years

Amanda White:

again, doing internal communications and had really great experiences

Amanda White:

of working on projects where.

Amanda White:

Teams were being reorganized.

Amanda White:

There was actually some office closures and there was a merger that happened.

Amanda White:

So I've got really good experience and grasp around more challenging internal

Amanda White:

communications that, you know, impact on essentially the impact on people's lives.

Amanda White:

And I really wanted to do a bit more with that.

Amanda White:

So I then was offered a job in the NHS.

Amanda White:

And I spent eight years working in an NHS trust, which was amazing.

Amanda White:

And my role there was more external communications.

Amanda White:

where I was able to communicate to different audiences, including

Amanda White:

healthcare professionals, primary care clinicians, members of the public,

Amanda White:

patients, but also stakeholders that are working in local governments.

Amanda White:

So worked on some really fascinating projects there as well.

Amanda White:

And then that took me into another role in linked to the

Amanda White:

NHS, but working with academics.

Amanda White:

And that's kind of how I got into my.

Amanda White:

more science and research communications.

Amanda White:

And I was able then to develop from there and move into a director

Amanda White:

role in my last post where I was responsible for communications across

Amanda White:

the National Research Institute.

Amanda White:

And then now where I am at Lifebit, which is back in the commercial sector, but

Amanda White:

still focused on science and research.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Before I ask you any more questions and a bit later in the

Amanda White:

conversation, we'll come back to that sort of directorship and taking that step up.

Amanda White:

And I'm really keen to hear some of the highlights about

Amanda White:

your communications career.

Amanda White:

But I'm also intrigued to know is somebody who the majority of my communications

Amanda White:

career has been in the public sector and you've kind of done voluntary sector,

Amanda White:

public sector, commercial sector.

Amanda White:

Are there similarities and differences?

Amanda White:

And I'm, I'm not going to be mean and put you on the spot and say, is there

Amanda White:

one that you prefer over the other, but I'd just be intrigued to know, what's

Amanda White:

felt different and what similarities there have been through that journey

Amanda White:

through different sectors for you.

Amanda White:

Yeah, I think it's a really good question.

Amanda White:

I think for us as communicators, there's a lot of similarities because

Amanda White:

ultimately you're in, if you're in house, you're there to support the

Amanda White:

objectives of that organization.

Amanda White:

So you create your common strategy around that and achieving those objectives.

Amanda White:

So from that point of view, you know, it's very similar and, you

Amanda White:

know, the approach to developing a communication strategy can be the same.

Amanda White:

I think in any sector it's kind of, you know, the audience is.

Amanda White:

Are often, you know, obviously difference.

Amanda White:

And I think, obviously the big, the big difference between a

Amanda White:

public sector and commercial sector is, in the commercial sector.

Amanda White:

There is that kind of focus on, , ensuring that your value for money, but you're

Amanda White:

also bringing in, , you're promoting the business in the right way that

Amanda White:

actually brings in those leads as well.

Amanda White:

So it's.

Amanda White:

The kind of the pressures, I would say, are slightly different.

Amanda White:

But I would say, yeah, in terms of, you know, the work that we're

Amanda White:

doing and the way that we work, that there's a lot of similarities.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm always intrigued to get that extra insight when People

Amanda White:

who've worked in, in different sectors to myself, and I know listeners will be keen

Amanda White:

to hear some of that as well because I guess as we go through the conversation,

Amanda White:

some of that decision making about taking the next step in your career is about

Amanda White:

where feels like the right fit for you.

Amanda White:

But I'm really keen to hear a bit more about highlights of your

Amanda White:

communications career, Amanda, and I'm sure there'll be many and it'll

Amanda White:

be hard to choose given, given the breadth of experience that you've got.

Amanda White:

But are there any.

Amanda White:

Particular things that stand out for you as a highlight

Amanda White:

throughout your comms career.

Amanda White:

Yeah, I think for me, the highlights have also been some of the most

Amanda White:

challenging things that I've worked on in my career, because they're the things

Amanda White:

that stick out to me as kind of having, you know, I've got very strong memories.

Amanda White:

I'm very proud of working with teams on these particular projects so I guess

Amanda White:

the first one you know, you wouldn't really call it a highlight because, it

Amanda White:

was, , a really terrible circumstance that happened, but when it, going

Amanda White:

back a few years now, but the for those that remember, , the bombings,

Amanda White:

the terrorist attacks in London.

Amanda White:

I was at the time working at Bart's Health NHS Trust.

Amanda White:

I was a communications manager and I was also one of the on call press officers.

Amanda White:

So for those of you that are in the NHS and listening, you'll know that

Amanda White:

you kind of, you all have a turn on the rota to be a press officer.

Amanda White:

So I had some experience, but not a huge amount of experience

Amanda White:

of dealing with the media.

Amanda White:

And on that day of the London bombings we went into the office, we were , working

Amanda White:

in the office in person at that point.

Amanda White:

And we had in the press office, we had a TV, so the TV was on and we

Amanda White:

started to kind of see news reports of I think there was a bomb that was

Amanda White:

exploded on a bus in Russell Square.

Amanda White:

And then we were hearing reports of something happening on the underground.

Amanda White:

And one of our, our, our head of press was asked to go immediately to the, the

Amanda White:

Royal London Hospital, which was along the Whitechapel Road from our office.

Amanda White:

And I went along with them and we didn't really know what to expect.

Amanda White:

So it was very frightening.

Amanda White:

It was very daunting.

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And , we spent sort of two or three days working together as

Amanda White:

a team over that period of time.

Amanda White:

Most of the casualties from the bombings were transported to the Royal

Amanda White:

London Hospital where we were working.

Amanda White:

They came in buses, so the bus drivers stopped and picked everybody

Amanda White:

up and brought everybody over.

Amanda White:

So there was, there was hundreds of casualties that

Amanda White:

were in the hospital that day.

Amanda White:

And we were dealing with the The media, first of all, London

Amanda White:

media, then national media.

Amanda White:

And then by, I don't know, maybe two or three o'clock in the afternoon, it was

Amanda White:

the world's media that were contacting us.

Amanda White:

And at that time, people might also remember we had pagers

Amanda White:

we didn't have work, mobile phones.

Amanda White:

We had pagers that just buzzed and buzzed all the time.

Amanda White:

And the journalists were trying to.

Amanda White:

They wanted to speak to doctors at the hospital for their comments they wanted

Amanda White:

to speak to patients as well to get their kind of reports of the incident firsthand.

Amanda White:

And it was, it was incredibly overwhelming for so many different

Amanda White:

reasons, but in that situation as a team, we were just incredible.

Amanda White:

We worked, we all knew kind of what job we had to do, we all supported

Amanda White:

each other and we got through it.

Amanda White:

And then the next day we had an inquiry that the queen wanted to

Amanda White:

come and visit to kind of give her regards to the staff at the hospital.

Amanda White:

So that added another dimension to this situation that we found ourselves

Amanda White:

in where we had to kind of prep.

Amanda White:

You know the space and we had to prep the clinicians and yeah, then we

Amanda White:

had this wonderful visit on the day.

Amanda White:

So,, in terms of a highlight, in terms of what we were able to deliver as a team

Amanda White:

and, you know, my personal involvement in that,, being thrown in completely

Amanda White:

at the deep end, dealing with the world's media, knowing kind of how to

Amanda White:

give appropriate statements knowing who should be an appropriate spokesperson and

Amanda White:

what support they might need, because.

Amanda White:

the clinicians were having , an awful job on the day.

Amanda White:

And then, you know, the coverage we had as a hospital afterwards in terms of how

Amanda White:

that hospital and the NHS trust dealt with those incidents was fantastic.

Amanda White:

So, you know, the outputs of that.

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You know, as something that are really memorable and, you

Amanda White:

know, really stick with me.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: And the power of team feels really important, doesn't it?

Amanda White:

And I don't know what your experience has been, but I've always found

Amanda White:

communications as a profession to be a really supportive profession to be part

Amanda White:

of, and there's a real sense of community and camaraderie, particularly when.

Amanda White:

Something terrible happens, actually, that people are there to support each

Amanda White:

other and pick each other up, so I don't know if that's been your experience

Amanda White:

in other places as well as in the NHS, but it sounds like from what you're

Amanda White:

saying that sense of team around you is really important as a communicator in

Amanda White:

dealing with some of the things we face.

Amanda White:

Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda White:

I think, , for everybody to come together and know what their role needs to be.

Amanda White:

And in those kind of urgent emergency situations, your job

Amanda White:

title sort of doesn't matter.

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It's kind of who you are.

Amanda White:

where your skills are best able to adapt to that situation and

Amanda White:

how you're able to work together.

Amanda White:

And that team that I worked with on that day, we still go for

Amanda White:

dinner at least twice a year.

Amanda White:

We are, we're very close.

Amanda White:

We're very supportive.

Amanda White:

And I think, you know, that that will continue, you know, we're, we're

Amanda White:

almost 20 years on from that incident.

Amanda White:

So and then, you know, another similar,, example is during the pandemic.

Amanda White:

So at the time I was director of communications and policy at

Amanda White:

Health Data Research UK, which is a national research institute for

Amanda White:

England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

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And it was a new institute.

Amanda White:

So it was established in 2017.

Amanda White:

And when we got into the pandemic, the Institute was really kind of

Amanda White:

found its feet because it had a real purpose to demonstrate the

Amanda White:

power of health data for research.

Amanda White:

And this health data was needed urgently for research.

Amanda White:

you know, the research into the vaccine and understanding how COVID 19 was

Amanda White:

spread, and looking at treatments for the people that were in hospital.

Amanda White:

And so my team at the time, and , I had a very small team at Health Data Research

Amanda White:

UK, but we, we were there to make sure that we were gathering information from

Amanda White:

the research community on how they were working together to form projects.

Amanda White:

We were communicating and doing engagement projects with patients and members of

Amanda White:

the public to understand what their.

Amanda White:

Priorities were in terms of where should the government act most urgently

Amanda White:

in terms of the research response.

Amanda White:

And we were communicating with government ministers and the SAGE

Amanda White:

committee on a regular basis.

Amanda White:

We were giving them reports and we were giving them briefings on

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what were the most urgent research priorities and where were the research

Amanda White:

teams already established that were set up and ready to respond.

Amanda White:

And again, that team aspect was so important and I suppose in that

Amanda White:

situation, it wasn't just my, my direct team that I was working with, but it

Amanda White:

was the whole Team across the uk, all of the communicators that were working

Amanda White:

in, the NHS in the universities, in the, in the research institutes,

Amanda White:

the, the Welcome Institute at the, at Sanger Institute in Hingston.

Amanda White:

They were processing all of the genomic data for all of the Covid samples.

Amanda White:

So it was a whole team.

Amanda White:

You know, efforts.

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And I think, you know, that was really incredible as well.

Amanda White:

You know, being part of that and again, understanding, where

Amanda White:

our skills were, where we could best contribute and organizing

Amanda White:

ourselves in the most effective way.

Amanda White:

So that, that's another aspects of my career that really stands out.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Amazing, such brilliant examples.

Amanda White:

Thank you so much for sharing Amanda.

Amanda White:

And it's interesting, isn't it?

Amanda White:

I like what you said before you gave those examples that actually the bits of

Amanda White:

your career that really stand out that you've considered highlights probably

Amanda White:

come from some really challenging places.

Amanda White:

That wouldn't necessarily be a natural conclusion that you might draw when

Amanda White:

thinking about highlights, but I think it really demonstrates the nature of

Amanda White:

the role of communications as well.

Amanda White:

And the sorts of things that communicators,, are faced with on a, on a

Amanda White:

fairly regular basis and what they have to get involved in with their organizations.

Amanda White:

Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda White:

And I think it demonstrates that the role is much broader than, you

Amanda White:

know, what people might traditionally feel is, is a communications job.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: if you're an aspiring communications leader who's looking

Amanda White:

for a safe space to work through your next steps or you want to become more

Amanda White:

boundaried and intentional in the workplace or even in your career, why

Amanda White:

not check out the individual and group mentoring offers with Cats Pajamas.

Amanda White:

You can find out more at cats-pajamas.co.Uk or over on our socials.

Amanda White:

All the links are in the show notes.

Amanda White:

I'm going to move us on a little bit now and ask you about that decision to take

Amanda White:

on a role as a communications director.

Amanda White:

And part of wanting to have these conversations on the podcast is about

Amanda White:

inspiring future communications leaders.

Amanda White:

So I know listeners will be keen to know kind of how did you decide that

Amanda White:

becoming a director of communications was the right choice for you.

Amanda White:

I

Amanda White:

I've always been very driven in achieving the best that I can.

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I always remember my dad at school when, when it was exam time, my dad

Amanda White:

always said, , do your best, , that's, that's what we're looking for.

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And , that's always sort of been ingrained in me that I want to do really

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well in my role, but actually I want to always strive to take that next step.

Amanda White:

And quite often it's been, I have to put myself out of my comfort zone to do that.

Amanda White:

I think, you know, quite a lot of us feel like that.

Amanda White:

To a certain extent, but I've always been, , driven to achieve, , more

Amanda White:

responsibility, more accountability.

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So that's what's, what's focused me in my career.

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So each time I've had a career move, I have tried to take the next step up to

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push me again to do something that's a bit broader with with more responsibility.

Amanda White:

So there's the, there's that aspect.

Amanda White:

I think the other thing for me is again, it comes back to working with teams.

Amanda White:

, I really get a lot of pleasure and joy and satisfaction from working with other

Amanda White:

people and supporting other people.

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Also to do their best and to , get the most out of their, their jobs.

Amanda White:

And I found probably in my first manager role or my first head of

Amanda White:

communication role that I was, I'm actually quite good at this.

Amanda White:

It's quite hard to say that, but you know, I'm quite, I'm, I'm good at managing.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: isn't it?

Amanda White:

Why do we find it so hard to say we're actually quite good at supporting

Amanda White:

other people to do great things?

Amanda White:

It's, it is hard, but you know, I, I get

Amanda White:

great feedback from my teams.

Amanda White:

And you know, I support them.

Amanda White:

I s you know, I, I make sure that they are delivering what they need to do

Amanda White:

because obviously we've got tasks and we've got objectives to meet and we've

Amanda White:

got KPIs that we have to demonstrate.

Amanda White:

So there is that ensuring as a leader that we've got that kind of

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clear objective and clear outputs.

Amanda White:

But at the same time, recognizing everybody in the team is an

Amanda White:

individual and they, they want to get something out of their role as well.

Amanda White:

And if I can be there to support that and to really champion that, The

Amanda White:

individuals in my team, then again, that's something that I really love.

Amanda White:

And I felt that I could do that more if I become a director because I'm

Amanda White:

leading, across different departments.

Amanda White:

And I kind of feel like I have huge pride in celebrating

Amanda White:

what, what teams can deliver.

Amanda White:

And when you start a strategy or you're setting up, , a communications

Amanda White:

team, and then you sort of, you can, you work through that process and

Amanda White:

then you see what comes out and what you are able to achieve together.

Amanda White:

I feel, I feel incredibly proud and I feel.

Amanda White:

I'm always really excited to celebrate those achievements of the team.

Amanda White:

And I think, you know, that's, that's what's really driven

Amanda White:

me in my career so far.

Amanda White:

And, you know, wanting to become a director.

Amanda White:

And, you know, just the variety of work that comes with being a director.

Amanda White:

I think in communications, there are so many different aspects to the

Amanda White:

role, as I was saying previously.

Amanda White:

And, , I've had the privilege of leading , public engagement

Amanda White:

and involvement activities.

Amanda White:

I currently lead marketing activities.

Amanda White:

I've done policy and public affairs.

Amanda White:

And I think as a director, you can have that.

Amanda White:

Responsibility for the strategy overall, and then you can motivate and encourage

Amanda White:

and support your teams to achieve.

Amanda White:

The best that they can within that strategy.

Amanda White:

So I think that's really something that's been driving me.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm sat here listening to you, Amanda,

Amanda White:

thinking I want you to be my boss.

Amanda White:

Doesn't everyone dream of having a leader like you who is there to

Amanda White:

support their growth and development?

Amanda White:

And yeah, it's so lovely to hear.

Amanda White:

And I'm really pleased that it's something that you feel proud of, even though

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it's hard to say sometimes, isn't it?

Amanda White:

That, that like you're there for everyone else, but yeah, that's

Amanda White:

really, really lovely to hear.

Amanda White:

So thank you.

Amanda White:

And , I'm sure next time you have a vacancy in your team, listeners to

Amanda White:

this podcast, Clamoring to, apply for the role, Amanda, to work with you.

Amanda White:

So that's a little bit about your why in terms of taking on a

Amanda White:

more senior communications role, which I think is really helpful

Amanda White:

to understand by way of context.

Amanda White:

And I know we've talked already a little bit about challenging scenarios

Amanda White:

in, in your career that actually have been things that you're really

Amanda White:

proud of in terms of handling them.

Amanda White:

But I guess specifically as a communications director, for those

Amanda White:

listeners who are Maybe thinking they want to take that step up, but they're

Amanda White:

a bit unsure because it is a more senior role with perhaps a bigger portfolio.

Amanda White:

I'd be intrigued to hear a little bit about what you might have considered

Amanda White:

to be your biggest challenge as a communications director.

Amanda White:

Okay.

Amanda White:

So I think I think the challenges that exist in any communications

Amanda White:

role continues, but they probably yeah, they probably vary in, in

Amanda White:

kind of difficulty, I suppose.

Amanda White:

I guess one of the things for me that I've always felt is a

Amanda White:

challenge through my career is.

Amanda White:

needing to demonstrate credibility and expertise in communications.

Amanda White:

I think working in the NHS, you're working with, very, very skilled

Amanda White:

technical medical professionals who have trained for years to do that job.

Amanda White:

In academia where I've worked, , you've got people that study for

Amanda White:

several years and, move through the academic career ladder.

Amanda White:

And currently, I'm working in a biotech company where I'm just working with

Amanda White:

brilliant innovators and, , coming into an organization as the communications

Amanda White:

director, you have to demonstrate that credibility from day one.

Amanda White:

You have to always, be.

Amanda White:

Delivering that expertise and using those skills that other people don't have

Amanda White:

because whilst they, maybe a professor.

Amanda White:

of epidemiology, they might be , a surgeon, in the NHS, they haven't

Amanda White:

spent 15 or 20 years working in teams, developing communication strategies

Amanda White:

that are influencing , people's choices or people's behaviors.

Amanda White:

But just having that job title isn't enough.

Amanda White:

You have to come in and you have to really demonstrate it.

Amanda White:

I think that's, that's always sort of for me has felt like a bit of a challenge.

Amanda White:

But it's just something that I suppose comes with, comes with the job.

Amanda White:

I think another thing is as a director, you're there to set the direction.

Amanda White:

And as we've talked about to support the team, to deliver that direction.

Amanda White:

Sometimes you want to be kind of more hands on because, as you've come up

Amanda White:

through your career, you've been used to writing press releases or you've been

Amanda White:

used to managing the social media channels or writing the newsletter content.

Amanda White:

And I think One of the challenges for me is letting go of that a little bit.

Amanda White:

So, recognizing that you have a very skilled team around you, who

Amanda White:

can get on with all of, , those really important things.

Amanda White:

You don't have to go meddling in and, checking things before they go out

Amanda White:

or monitoring social media channels.

Amanda White:

So that's been a, learning for me, as I've, moved into these director roles.

Amanda White:

So that's another one.

Amanda White:

And I suppose the other thing is being able to switch off.

Amanda White:

I think as a comms director, you always feel like you're on, on call.

Amanda White:

When you're working with individuals and organizations that rely on your your

Amanda White:

advice, your guidance, particularly, I think, when , as a director, you are

Amanda White:

there is the trusted advisor to the chief executive or to the board members.

Amanda White:

being able to take time away, switch off in the evenings, not check your

Amanda White:

emails, not check your other messages.

Amanda White:

I think that's, that's also a challenge that people should think about if

Amanda White:

they're considering, , this direction.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Definitely, it can become all consuming, can't it?

Amanda White:

And sometimes it has to be, but it's about being able to put those

Amanda White:

boundaries in place, at the right time while still delivering what your

Amanda White:

organisation needs from you when you're working at that level as a director.

Amanda White:

With the board and I was, interested and I liked the words you used about

Amanda White:

like meddling because I think that is something that, we can all be at risk

Amanda White:

of doing when you're someone who's been there and done that for yourself.

Amanda White:

Because like you say, it's about that ability to let that go and

Amanda White:

trust the people around you.

Amanda White:

But I guess for me, it feels like that, goes hand in hand with the

Amanda White:

points you were making previously about development of people and

Amanda White:

supporting people to be their best.

Amanda White:

Because actually, if you are there.

Amanda White:

meddling and not empowering them to do what their job is to the best of

Amanda White:

their ability, then you're taking an opportunity away from them, aren't you?

Amanda White:

Particularly if you're there thinking, Oh, I just know how to do it.

Amanda White:

I could just do that really quickly myself,.

Amanda White:

Whatever reason you have for meddling, I think you're absolutely right.

Amanda White:

You have to be able to step away and trust that you've recruited the

Amanda White:

right people to, to do their roles.

Amanda White:

And obviously your input is then that encouragement and that support

Amanda White:

for growth rather than, Doing everything because you know how to.

Amanda White:

Yeah, exactly.

Amanda White:

And I think I had some really good advice as well when I when I moved into

Amanda White:

my director role Somebody said to me, well, what's, what's the worst thing

Amanda White:

that can happen if somebody if somebody fails, actually, it's a good thing if

Amanda White:

people fail from time to time, because that's the way that we learn, isn't it?

Amanda White:

And we've all done it.

Amanda White:

We've all made mistakes in our roles , over time.

Amanda White:

So I think, that is really important as a consideration to know if you're coming

Amanda White:

in as a director, you are there to lead that, strategy and the overall direction.

Amanda White:

And have that mindset that your team can get on with it and work with you on it.

Amanda White:

You don't have to be focused on absolutely everything that goes on.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you, Amanda.

Amanda White:

And we will talk a bit more about your own advice for aspiring comms leaders shortly.

Amanda White:

But just before, because I know we've talked a lot about challenge

Amanda White:

I just wondered in the sphere of your communications director world

Amanda White:

and experience, what you might consider to be your biggest success.

Amanda White:

So almost the flip side of the challenges.

Amanda White:

I I think the success that I've achieved has

Amanda White:

been setting up the communications function at Health Data Research UK.

Amanda White:

So I mentioned when I joined, it was a brand new institute.

Amanda White:

So I was working with the director.

Amanda White:

There was only three or four of us in the team when I joined.

Amanda White:

And I was very fortunate because My institute director at the

Amanda White:

time recognized the huge value of communications and engagement.

Amanda White:

From the outset.

Amanda White:

And so he brought me in to work with him to work alongside the director

Amanda White:

in establishing the institute.

Amanda White:

And it was really hard work.

Amanda White:

I mean, it was, it was like it was being in a startup.

Amanda White:

I turned up on my first day.

Amanda White:

We didn't have any computers, we didn't have a printer, I had to

Amanda White:

go to PC world on my first day and get myself the equipment.

Amanda White:

So it was, it was very much startup we grew to around about

Amanda White:

120 people by the time I left.

Amanda White:

We had a really well established comms and engagement function.

Amanda White:

And, we had developed the institute into a brand that was.

Amanda White:

Recognized around the world.

Amanda White:

So I was there as a director leading the brand development.

Amanda White:

I was leading the communication strategy.

Amanda White:

I led the public involvement and engagement strategy.

Amanda White:

And we had fantastic engagements.

Amanda White:

We had patient advisor, public advisors.

Amanda White:

And we had a very well recognized brand.

Amanda White:

And when I left, we were applying for our next five years of funding.

Amanda White:

And the Institute was very successful in being awarded its next funding round.

Amanda White:

So I was just, I was so proud.

Amanda White:

And I think, I think it was a success because we had, created something, , from

Amanda White:

nothing through to this internationally recognized institute that was really

Amanda White:

bringing together organizations around the responsible and ethical

Amanda White:

use of health data for research.

Amanda White:

So that's something that I will always be very proud of.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: And how amazing to be there right from the start,

Amanda White:

like the very first stages, like you say, you're the person that and

Amanda White:

get your own computer because you literally, it was like from day one.

Amanda White:

And I imagine there's not really that many opportunities for people

Amanda White:

to be at those very early stages of setting up an entire organization.

Amanda White:

So I can absolutely see why that would be such a great experience

Amanda White:

and why you'd feel so proud of that.

Amanda White:

And I guess just to.

Amanda White:

A supplementary question from me, like when you've worked somewhere

Amanda White:

from set up basically, is it very hard to take that leap to move?

Amanda White:

Do you feel more of a sense of like, I've been here since day one and it's, it's a

Amanda White:

harder wrench to move away or, or is that just me thinking that would be the case?

Amanda White:

Well, I'm a bit a bit silly and a bit emotional about these

Amanda White:

things, to be honest, because at the end of the day, it is just a job.

Amanda White:

But yes feel a sense of, maybe not ownership.

Amanda White:

Maybe I do.

Amanda White:

Maybe I did feel a some sense of ownership for it, which is, which was probably

Amanda White:

relating to the challenge that I had of.

Amanda White:

letting it go a little bit and enabling my team to kind of lead their own areas.

Amanda White:

But yes, also that sort of sense of loyalty that you have put everything

Amanda White:

into this, you put so much energy, late night working, weekend working.

Amanda White:

Into this initiative that it is very difficult to walk away.

Amanda White:

But for that role, I felt that it was the right time for me because

Amanda White:

I'd been there for almost five years.

Amanda White:

We were going into this next five year cycle and the strategy was

Amanda White:

likely to be quite different.

Amanda White:

And I felt that it needed some new fresh ideas to come in at that point.

Amanda White:

So it did feel like the right time to step away.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Excellent.

Amanda White:

Thank you.

Amanda White:

Thank you for humoring me because I feel like I'd be very emotional and

Amanda White:

having had an experience of leaving an entire sector quite recently, it was,

Amanda White:

it was a really, I knew it was the right decision for me, but it was a really

Amanda White:

difficult decision because I almost had that sense of like, who even am I if

Amanda White:

I'm not, an NHS comms director anymore.

Amanda White:

So I was just wondering if being right there at the very start of it made

Amanda White:

that an even, an even harder decision.

Amanda White:

So thank you for sharing.

Amanda White:

So it feels like we're getting onto that bit, which is always the

Amanda White:

last bit of the podcast episode.

Amanda White:

And it's usually the bit that listeners are most interested in.

Amanda White:

And that's why I put it at the end to keep people listening.

Amanda White:

I wondered what advice you might give Amanda to aspiring communications

Amanda White:

directors, or people wanting to step up into more senior leadership roles.

Amanda White:

Yeah,

Amanda White:

it's a good question.

Amanda White:

I've been thinking about this and trying to figure out what, what,

Amanda White:

what is my best piece of advice?

Amanda White:

I think.

Amanda White:

I think I've got a couple, actually, if that's okay.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: absolutely.

Amanda White:

Okay.

Amanda White:

One is, what I found is working for organizations that may not

Amanda White:

be properly established, that may, , be a bit rough around the edges at the

Amanda White:

beginning, provide, have provided me with the very best of experiences

Amanda White:

because it's enabled me to shape things for myself and, and for the

Amanda White:

organization and has enabled me to grow.

Amanda White:

So being in at the start at HDR UK, , being employed to lead communications

Amanda White:

and engagement, I would then ended up leading all of those other areas as well.

Amanda White:

So I would say, if you get an opportunity to go into.

Amanda White:

, maybe a smaller, less established organization that's in its early

Amanda White:

stage, I would say go for it.

Amanda White:

If you feel like the culture is right because it's definitely a great place

Amanda White:

to grow in your career and probably quite quickly, more quickly than you

Amanda White:

would do in, in larger organizations.

Amanda White:

And the other thing that I would say, which is probably not just only

Amanda White:

relevant for a comms director, but it's probably more broadly relevant

Amanda White:

is trust your instincts because.

Amanda White:

An organization culture is so important, and if you feel that there is something

Amanda White:

not quite right, but you can't put your finger on it, there probably

Amanda White:

is something that's not quite right.

Amanda White:

So I would definitely say trust your instincts about, , the, the

Amanda White:

places that you go and work in and , the workplaces that you choose.

Amanda White:

So that would be my second piece of advice.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: I think that's a really interesting piece of advice, isn't it?

Amanda White:

Because you're right, that applies to everybody, whatever role they're

Amanda White:

in, that that culture has to feel like a culture that fits for you

Amanda White:

and aligns to your values and is something, a culture where you feel

Amanda White:

like you can have impact and thrive.

Amanda White:

But as you've said that, I thought that's probably is like

Amanda White:

extra for a communications team.

Amanda White:

professional, whatever level they're working at, because communications play

Amanda White:

such an important role in helping to set and communicate and define and work on the

Amanda White:

culture of that organization, doesn't it?

Amanda White:

So actually there has to be that fit there to enable you to be the best communicator

Amanda White:

you can be as well, because it's quite difficult to communicate something that

Amanda White:

maybe doesn't quite sit right with you,

Amanda White:

Yeah, exactly.

Amanda White:

And I think as a comms director, part of your role is to influence

Amanda White:

a culture internally because your internal colleagues are your

Amanda White:

advocates and your spokespeople.

Amanda White:

And they all have such an important role in how You're positioning that brand

Amanda White:

or that, that organization's identity.

Amanda White:

And so if you feel that, your values or your personal, culture

Amanda White:

is not aligned, then that there's probably something in that, , if

Amanda White:

your instincts are telling you that.

Amanda White:

I would say go with it,

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: but so trust your instincts is a really important bit of

Amanda White:

advice for all of us and I feel like we've almost come full circle Amanda

Amanda White:

because you've just mentioned the role of a comms director in that internal

Amanda White:

space around setting culture and right at the start of our conversation

Amanda White:

you talked about taking on that internal Comms role with action aid.

Amanda White:

So I feel like , that's definitely, it feels like a theme that's come through

Amanda White:

this conversation about, , your desire to have impact for other people and

Amanda White:

develop them and make sure environments are environments where people can thrive.

Amanda White:

So I've really enjoyed hearing this.

Amanda White:

I could talk to you for lots longer, Amanda, but I know you probably got

Amanda White:

other things that you need to be doing and our listeners probably do have too,

Amanda White:

but I've really appreciated you sharing.

Amanda White:

Your highlights, some of the challenges, but also your

Amanda White:

advice for other communicators.

Amanda White:

It's been really interesting to hear about that, particularly that's, that being

Amanda White:

in almost a startup and what that's felt like for you as a communications director

Amanda White:

and the opportunities it's given you.

Amanda White:

So huge thanks from me.

Amanda White:

If people want to connect with you, Amanda, pick your brains or

Amanda White:

find out more about what you're up to as a comms director, what's

Amanda White:

the best way for them to do that?

Amanda White:

Just reach out to me.

Amanda White:

I'm on LinkedIn.

Amanda White:

So you can find me there and be really happy to have a chat with anybody

Amanda White:

that, , has any other questions or would like, , some more advice or guidance.

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: Brilliant.

Amanda White:

That's great.

Amanda White:

Thank you so much, Amanda.

Amanda White:

I've really appreciated your time and your conversation today.

Amanda White:

Thank you, Carrie-Ann.

Amanda White:

It's been lovely chatting to you and I'll see you soon

Amanda White:

Carrie-Ann Wade: thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Amanda White:

I'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform

Amanda White:

and leave a rating or a review.

Amanda White:

You can also engage with me over on the socials.

Amanda White:

I'm on Insta and X at @catspjs_uk of course you can find me over on LinkedIn.

Amanda White:

Hope to catch up with you soon.

Show artwork for Behind the Bob

About the Podcast

Behind the Bob
Diary of a Comms Director
Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

This podcast is all about developing communications leaders of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career. You’ll hear from me about my experiences and insights and there might even be a special guest or two popping up.

Behind the Bob gives you a sneak peek into life as a comms director and provides you with all the "behind the scenes" knowledge to help you thrive as a communications leader.


About your host

Profile picture for Carrie-Ann Wade

Carrie-Ann Wade

Carrie-Ann Wade is a communications director in the NHS with over 20 years of communications and marketing experience. She is also founder of Cat’s Pajamas Communications which focuses on mentoring communications professionals to grow and thrive in their careers.

She has most recently been a finalist in the inaugural Comms Hero Fearless Trailblazer award and shortlisted in the National Facilitation Awards 2023. She was named one of F:entrepreneur's #ialso100 2020 top female entrepreneurs and business leaders, and Cat’s Pajamas has been recognised in Small Business Saturday's UK #SmallBiz100, as a business with impact.

She is one part of the How to Take the Lead collaborative, and cohost of a podcast with the same name, exploring the challenges and opportunities of modern day leadership. Carrie-Ann also hosts ‘Behind The Bob, Diary of a Comms Director’, a podcast supporting aspiring communications leaders.

Find out more via www.cats-pajamas.co.uk